Lukas Beeler’s IT Blog

31 Comments

1. Alan:

   this was really cool… I like reading what real customers think about IBM products versus other brands.

   31. July, 2007, 13:59

2. Rahman:

   Good idea. I am planning to have 2x x3650 with RAID 5 in my office. Can it be slotted with Internal LTO2 ULTRIUM Internal Tape Drive? Can it be used with Floppy Drive? Please advice.

   I need floppy due to my OFFLINE backup utility is using Floppy Disk. If not, I have to convert the FLOPPY DISK to CD. The ULTRIUM LTO2 is occupied in my ML370G3. The ML370 will be rest in peace and waiting for waking up if the other machine is down.

   7. August, 2007, 18:25

3. Lukas Beeler:

   The x3650 doesn’t support LTO2 on internal drives, and never will. It’s just too big. I would recommend a nice 1U autoloader. They’re no longer that expensive, and leave growth for expansion.

   Floppy drives are supported, but only through USB.

   7. August, 2007, 18:42

4. Rahman:

   Thanks Lukas for your prompt response.

   Since my budget is very tight…I would like to know, if I were putting “IBM Ultra320 SCSI Controller 2″ card into its PCI-X Riser slot, would it be able to work with the ULTRIUM LTO2 (HP StorageWorks Ultrium 448)?

   How about the power cable to my ULTRIUM? Is it the same as normal female power cable to the male in my ULTRIUM? If that the same, I would be glad enough to put the ULTRIUM (Internal Type) outside of x3650 box.

   Floppy through USB is good enuff. I hope it can boot from USB floppy as well as booting from USB Thumb Drive.

   8. August, 2007, 09:34

5. Rahman:

   My SPEC would be as follow:

   System X x3650

   * x3650, Xeon Dual Core 5110 2.00GHz/1066MHz/2×2MB L2, 2×512MB ChK, O/Bay 3.5in HS SAS, CD-RW/DVD Combo, 835W p/s, Rack
   * Intel Xeon Dual Core Processor Model 5110 2.00GHz /1066MHz/4MB L2
   * 1GB (2×512MB) PC2-5300 CL5 ECC DDR2 Chipkill FBDIMM Memory Kit
   * 4x IBM 73GB 3.5in 10K HS SAS HDD
   * ServeRAID-8k Adapter
   * IBM Ultra320 SCSI Controller 2
   * PCI-X Riser Card
   * xSeries 835W Redundant Power Option
   * Remote Supervisor Adapter II Slimline

   Operating System
   * Windows Server Std 2003 R2 English OLP NL

   I have seen you put in your x3650 spec:

   > PCI-X SCSI U320 Adapter for tape drives.

   What sort of tape drive you mean? DDS4? I saw both ULTRIUM and DDS4 size is as same as normal PC’s CD ROM. However the DDS4 Drive is shorther than the ULTRIUM. About 2/3 of normal PC CDROM length.

   One more thing, either 3.5in or 2.5in is suitable for my x3650? Since my supplier has quoted was 3.5in. And I saw yours 2.5in. :{

   Thanks.

   8. August, 2007, 09:50

6. Lukas Beeler:

   Hi Rahman,

   Yes, with the PCI-X Riser and the U320 Controller, you should be able to get the LTO2 working. You would need an external casing for your drive though. These are not that expensive, around 100-200US$. Power would be supplied by the external casing, and you would need a VHDCI 68 cable on the controller side, and whatever fits on your external casing.

   The U320 controller is only for external tape drives. Internal tape drives are attached through SATA. There are internal DDS4 drives available for the x3650, but i wouldn’t recommend them.

   You can boot from USB floppies as well as from thumb drives.

   Your config only has 1GB of RAM, that seems to be rather low. What do you want to run on this machine?

   There are both 3.5″ and 2.5″ inch models of the x3650 available. I would strongly recommend to buy the 2.5″ model, because it has 8 disk slots, and not only six like the 3.5″ model.

   8. August, 2007, 10:41

7. Rahman:

   Dear Lucas,

   Thannks for hearing that. I have 2 external CDROM which the casing is fit to the ULTRIUM. Need to modify for enabling the SCSI cable to go thru.

   The server is only run Lotus Domino v8 (upgrade from previous 6.5.3) and some simple in-house application. And will be local proxy server as well.

   Not so many user, below than 250 with 3 different location (Switzerland and Malaysia [HQ and Operation Office]).

   My config was 2Gb RAM with 2 processors. See the first line and the rest was just a repeatition. My previous ML370G3 has only 1Gb RAM. Too slow when accessing from outside. If can and the type is identical , I will transfer it to the x3650 box.

   I will ask my supplier to change it back to 2.5″ HDD.

   Many thanks for your sharing the experience. Sure I will contact you once I have a problem during setup the box.

   8. August, 2007, 11:19

8. Lukas Beeler:

   250 users with only 2GB RAM seems a bit low. I’m not a notes expert, but is there a 64bit version of v8 available? If so, it might make sense to go with Windows Server 2003 x64, and put ~8GB of RAM into the machine. I would check with an IBM BP that specializes on notes to make sure that your hardware is optimal with the Notes requirements. It doesn’t make sense to use two dualcore CPUs with just 2GB RAM, that’s far too low.

   It would also be a better idea to buy a prepared SCSI caging, otherwise you might run into problems with terminations, cabling, etc.

   8. August, 2007, 11:35

9. Rahman:

   Hi Lukas,

   You are much brighter than me about that. I have checked thru IBM pages, currently they are supporting the 64 bit version on W2K3 64 bit as well. Perhaps I have to review it once more for the Service Pack Requirement.

   I am a bit afraid to try the 64 bit version. Few issues should be predicted and checked prior to the implementation.

   a) Our local Proxy Software (ProxyNow!)
   b) Lack of experience in handling 64 bit issues.
   - Lotus Domino 8 and Client 8 (esp. Domino Server reconfiguration.)
   - W2K3 itself even the price is identical (maybe 32 bit and 64 bit is same).
   - I have heard few inactive features are no longer included in 64 bit version.
   - Current domino application since system has been developed by 3rd party.

   Your ideas are very nice. I will give it a review and try to make it happen. As the previous version of server is still working without having any problem. I could concluded now that there is no problem ( except a minor issues ) to buy both 64 bit version and apply it into the new box.

   For the RAM issues, I have another 4Gb ECC DDR2 RAM from ML380G4 spare. Could it make any sense to put into x3650? I know the best should get it from the purchase in one shot. Thanks a lot for considering this. I never used to work with a bigger RAM before. Most of my servers are running at as high as 2Gb only. (Poor me since I have a very budgetive boss and keep asking “why should I need that and this.” In this respest, you have brought me into the good idea for a better justification of the purchase.)

   For the time being, the SCSI cage is a better solution in order to keep the device work at good pace.

   Nevermind, I will ask my supplier to requote it for a final conclusion. This is due to we are planning to migrate from HP to IBM Server which is believed more sturdier than others. Few equipments and software should be incorporated accordingly due to entightening the Domino Mail and Application Security like TrendMicro IGSA or Domino ScanMail and DMZ Firewall.

   I do not know how to compare the HP and IBM Server. I used to wake up in the early morning to bring back the Domino server on ML370G4 from scratch. All RAID 5 of 6x 36Gb HDDs gone due to HP SCSI Backplane hot for unknown reason. Very Strange HP even equipped with 2 RAID Controllers (642 and 5302-RAID ADG). Luckily it just took me for about 2.5 hours with 134GB restoration from LTO2 with Adaptec SCSI Controller.

   I used to experience the HP RAID controllers and HDDs are tend to hot as well. Especially during server setup which is consuming more boot processing power. My other Test-Bed servers of ML370G3 and ML350G1 are also gone during testing the backup and restoration process. Perhaps I am not very lucky with HP.

   8. August, 2007, 22:34

10. Lukas Beeler:

    Hi Rahman,

    Yes, moving to 64bit isn’t a step that should be taken lightly. However doing so will enable you to scale the performance of the server much better. If you can’t make sure that all the software you need will run under Windows x64, then use a 32bit version.

    The RAM from the ML380G4 won’t work. The x3650 uses FB-DIMMs, which are not compatible with the prievous generation. I know all the budget talks, and i’ve had the same problems over and over again. It’s not easy, but usually starting from a very, very expensive point and then letting your boss cut off a bit here and there works better than starting with a reasonable proposal.

    HP servers aren’t bad, but it seems unusual that you had so many problems with them. Is the temperature of your server room at a constant 20 degrees? Is the humidity okay? IS there dust in the air?

    9. August, 2007, 07:52

11. Rahman:

    Dear Lukas,

    I have contacted all the software manufacturer and system developer for my system. Most of them told me that it is better to stay with 32 bit version. Especially the Lotus Notes Developer. They are very unsure what will happen to their program after migration done.

    Poor me once more since the RAM could be occupied in the x3650 box. Since the spec was already been reviewed by my boss, perhaps I need to use the spare part budget for the rest of 6 Gb ECC RAM.

    I know most HP servers are good. I worked with HP machine for about 7 years. From Digital to HP merging age. And I saw my previous company still using the Digital machine for their PCB design department. That was also a tremendous performance of HP and Digital machine.

    Yes, I admit that your spotted issues are true. The server room temperature is not working at most recommended temperature ranging 10-28C (Normally 20-25C). Sometime my server room goes up to 30-35C. I have asked our Electrical Guy to fix the air-conditioning system or replace the better working model for the server room. (I have asked for 2x fail-over 2 h.p. system.). Unfortunately, when the budget and “office politicians” come into the picture…all the projected items has ruined. Very sad I say, my server room only use 1x 1.5 h.p. aircond system for 24 hrs. That could not keep the temperature at recomended level due to many IT and Telecommunication Equipments is there. 3 medium-sized UPS for Sound System, 3 medium-sized UPS for Servers, 3 medium-sized for PABX System, 5x ML370G3, 1x ML370G4 and all 6 years disposal list PCs, monitors, notebooks also there in a 5m x 3m room. That the price we should pay.

    9. August, 2007, 09:48

12. Jason Slater:

    I had to make this very decision earlier in the year and what swung it for me was not the technology but the partners. The IBM partners just failed to get their acts together and one treated us almost comically when we talked about only requiring one or two servers. When it came to HP however the story was different, I got to talk to people who seemed to understand my requirements far better, not only that but information arrived when it should and I didn’t have to keep going back chasing or verifying things. It’s almost a shame because I started out liking the IBM offering especially as we already run a number of pSeries but I have to say that I am very happy with our HP DL380 machines.

    Jason.
    http://theitmanagersjournal.blogspot.com

    10. August, 2007, 16:22

13. Lukas Beeler:

    Jason: I know what you mean. I’ve seen this more than once, with both HP, IBM etc. partners. The problem is usually that you’re talking to a company which cathers to much larger customers. There are just no people working there that know the SMB segment. IBM has recently launched an initiative to change this, but so far we haven’t seen much good effects.

    We’re a small reseller, and another thing that also happened more than once is that we spent weeks with a small business customer, tuning his configuration, advising on products etc., and in the end he bought from a larger IBM partner in the area, because they had 2% better prices (of course he just sent them the config we’ve worked out over those weeks). The larger partners get better prices, which makes some sense.

    Rahman: Sorry for the late reply. Yes, in that case stay with 32bit. Remember that more than 4GB RAM would require the Enterprise Edition of WS2003, and even then you can’t address the whole memory in one process (only processes which are AWE aware can use more than 2GB). In general, more than 4GB RAM in a 32bit machine shouldn’t be considered.

    10. August, 2007, 18:29

14. Rahman:

    Hi Lukas,

    Thanks for your great ideas. I will look into the 4Gb RAM and stay with 32 bit OS.

    11. August, 2007, 10:44

15. Tommy Chieng:

    Hi guys,
    Just stumble upon this blog. Here’s a good reference of the comparison of both of the servers in terms of performance per watt.

    6. September, 2007, 10:16

16. Tommy Chieng:

    sorry…i forgot the link:
    http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/pdf/ibmperformanceperwattstudy07-17-07.pdf

    6. September, 2007, 10:17

17. Rahman:

    Could someone confirm with me about both server fan? I have heard about the x3650…if a fan failure, the server continue to operate as usual. But HP don’t. All the HP machine will be down until the replacement has been made.

    Please advise.

    11. September, 2007, 16:21

18. Lukas Beeler:

    @Rahman:

    IBM x3650 has N+N redundancy when you have purchased a secondary powersupply.

    HP DL380 G5 has N+1 redundancy, always.

    Both machines continue to operate in case of a single fan failure.

    11. September, 2007, 16:25

19. Rahman:

    Thanks Lukas. Good news to hear this from you.

    11. September, 2007, 18:06

20. Mikin:

    hi,

    i would like to know, does it require to buy any Additional Server RAID-8k adaptor for RAID-5 Configuration or it comes with RAID-8k Adaptor with IBM X-3650 model ?

    my idea to use 2.5″ 10K RPM SAS HDDS, 146 *4 HDDs, 1 HDD for OS & DATABASE Server application installation & 3 HDDs for DATA storage(with RAID-5 COnfiguration). I don’t want to use OS HDD for RAID-5 configuration.

    Pl. guide me as earliest.

    Thanks in advance,

    Regards,
    Mikin Shah

    31. October, 2007, 04:53

21. Lukas Beeler:

    The 8k adapter is required for RAID5, yes.

    31. October, 2007, 07:25

22. Rahman:

    Hi Lukas,

    Just pondering about suitable internal LTO2 TAPE DRIVE for x3650. Could you please tell me the part number or its clue (type, etc…) to get that items…

    Thanks in advance.

    11. December, 2007, 09:03

23. eustache:

    Hi Lukas,
    We’ve purchased a x3650 Server. I’d like to put in the dialogic analog card, D/41JST-LS . Unfortunately the server does have only PCIe . Event the PCI raiser. Thus, it can’t currently support my card.
    Would you, please, advise me what I shall do, to be able to use my Dialogic board within the server.
    Thanks

    11. January, 2008, 08:19

24. Lukas Beeler:

    Hi eustache,

    You can swap out the PCI-E Raiser for a PCI-X Raiser. PCI-X slots are downward compatible to PCI. But beware - 5 Volt PCI Cards don’t run in the PCI-X Raiser. Make sure that your PCI Card is a 3.3V Card, and you can jusst plug that one into the PCI-X Raiser. The PCI-X Raiser must be purchased separately, and is priced at around 300US$.

    According to this page:
    http://www.dialogic.com/products/tdm_boards/media_processing/D41JCT_Boards.htm

    You can purchase that card with a PCI-E connector. Depending on the price of your card, it might be a better deal to just purchase a new PCI-E Card, thus future proofing your investment for the next server generation.

    11. January, 2008, 08:26

25. Kanthan:

    Hi

    A good article and very good feedbacks.

    Let me through some light on the above.

    1. IBM has recently introduced PCI-E SCSI Card, hence no need to buy PCI-X Expander for installing SCSI Controller.
    2. IBM has both 3.5″ and 2.5″ model for HDD spec. However please note that all 3.5″ HDDs are 15K RPM compared to 2.5″ HDD which are 10K RPM, This plays a critical role for applications such as database/messaging where 15K RPM HDDs are to deliver better performance compared to 2.5″ HDDs. The Trade off is you can have only 6 HDDs instead of 8.
    3. X3650 with 3.5″ HDDs support can be configured as a entry level NAS Appliance (less-Critical) with proper OS. The scalability is a tremendous 4.5TB with 750GB SATA HDDs.
    4. I personally do not recommend PCI-X Expander unless it cannot be avoided. Once you install PCI-X Expander, you cannot even use the onboard PCI-E Slots in the Server.

    17. February, 2008, 16:21

26. eustache:

    Hi Lucas, I have a card i must put into my IBM x365 server. The card is a 3.3 volts PCI. it’s required that I plug into the card the 4-pins 12 volts connector. Does the server have one ? How do I get access to it ? if not, what solution would you advise.
    Thanks in advance

    28. February, 2008, 19:20

27. Pradeep:

    vmware support on DL380 G5 server….?

    10. September, 2008, 15:33

28. Lukas Beeler:

    Pradeep,

    DL380 G5 supports both ESX and ESXi, in recent version (meaning 3.5 U2).

    10. September, 2008, 15:39

29. Jim:

    I just purchased an x3650 with SATA. One thing I noticed is that the drives are a real tight fit. So tight that there are long scratches on the hard drive from inserting and removing them. Anyone else experience this?

    22. September, 2008, 23:37

30. math:

    Up to now we’re quite happy with our 2 x3650 Server doing virtualisation on them. 4 SAS-Drives here do fit very tight too, but I don’t feel bad about this. If you are from educational sector, IBM gives very interesting offers - they were at almost same price level with Dell in Switzerland. :-)

    10. November, 2008, 15:27

31. ali:

    What failover (NIC) means (X3650)? Can I use this as firewall and with this feature if my Server breakdown /poweroff packet will pass through bettwen 2 NIC ?

    TQ

    28. November, 2008, 11:43

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